Thursday, February 26, 2009

Anyone at DFW?

It looks like I'm going to in the vicinity of the Dallas Fort Worth airport for half a day around the 1st of March. Do I have any readers around who would like to meet for dinner? Send me contact information and then I can coordinate with you when I find out the exact date and timing.

I have no comment or inside information on the recent Turkish Airlines 737-800 crash on approach into Amsterdam, but I think this is an excellent picture. You have the airplane, the engine, the residential street, and the varied actions of the responders. I like the expressiveness of one emergency worker with her arm up, pointing. There are more pictures here and presumably the story, too, if you read Dutch. There has really been some remarkable photojournalism of recent air accidents, and I don't think it's ghoulish for journalists to get in there and get the images and information for us, as long as they don't interfere with rescue efforts.

Update: Here's an English language link to currently know accident details.

17 comments:

datsclark said...

Back to Texas? I can't wait to read the posts! I myself stay away from Texas, but if you're even in the SFO area, give a shout.

GPS_Direct said...

This accident could prove interesting (though don't they all?)

Reasonable WX, a trainee observer pilot, and a passenger describing the nose coming up, followed by "turbulence" and then a sudden drop...

Zulu Delta said...

If you thought IAH (your intercontinental airport) was big, wait till you see DFW, which is the biggest airport in Texas, or so I am told.

By the way, listening to LAS on a recent Saturday afternoon, ATC kept harping to quite a few people about "Stay outside the Bravo".

Some poor soul was told he had "No permission to enter Bravo" when they finally spotted him (...7XX, in his c172).

He was cautioned to "Keep your eyes open while I try to get you out of there".

At the same time, Nellis AFB was scrambling quite a few aircraft in the general direction of LAS so everybody ( except ...7XX )had their eyes peeled for the military traffic.

Perhaps, at your convenience, you could elaborate on what is "The Bravo"

Had ...7XX wondered over towards Nellis and was about to recieve a warm reception or was he just cruising around with a little sightseeing down "The Strip" or maybe "the strip" i.e., the active runway.

Welcome back to Texas. We all anxiously await the upcoming posts, "in which Aviatrix ......."

Reqards,
Zulu Delta

dpierce said...

ZD: While not as proseworthy as an Aviatrix ramble, see if this link sheds any light.

Zulu Delta said...

dpierce: Thanks....much clearer now...the inverted wedding cake is a good analogy for "The Bravo"...and ATC got ...7XX out of the bravo quickly and safely.
Thank you for your help!
Regards, Zulu Delta

Sarah said...

Very unfortunate accident in Amsterdam. There is little information out yet beyond the raw fact & images. The 3 on the flight deck were all killed, which is no surprise seeing the wreck. At least there were many survivors, and no fire.

ZD - If you're curious about what the specific airspace looks like, LAS terminal area chart will help. This site is a great resource for armchair pilots (and airplane pilots who of course don't use it for navigation purposes. )

steve said...

Sarah said,"The 3 on the flight deck were all killed, which is no surprise seeing the wreck. "

I am normally dispassionate about these things,but felt really sad when that news came through.
The surprise was due to the relatively minor damage to the nose. I understand the tail was pretty devastated and the "broken back" is par for the course....but large numbers walked away, I'm wondering if the vertical deceleration got them.

When you see the absoloutely devestated car-crashes that people exit unscathed, one has to wonder if the safety of aircrew is compromised due to cost.
Whilst it could be argued that it's an industrial workplace,i'm sure more could be done to protect the people in the pointy end.
Seems unfair that they all died to give the vast majority of the Pax their lives.
Fly safe, Trix.

Zulu Delta said...

Sarah: Thanks for the link to the map. I will now be better equipped to follow the LAS action!
Regards, ZD

Rob said...

Actually I'm surprised that those in the cockpit died, since it looks relatively unscathed from the pictures I've seen taken of the outside.

A Squared said...

Actually I'm surprised that those in the cockpit died, since it looks relatively unscathed from the pictures I've seen taken of the outside. you must be using a different definition of unscathed than the one I'm familiar with. regardless, if the nose gear gets pushed up into the cockpit, it can go badly for the crew, even with much less external damage.

A Squared said...

When you see the absoloutely devestated car-crashes that people exit unscathed, one has to wonder if the safety of aircrew is compromised due to cost.

Well you could design an airplane with a steel cage surrounding all occupants, front and rear progressive crumple zones, side impact reinforcement, and all those other structural elements that protect automobile occupants, but then it wouldn't fly because it would be far to heavy, which would make calling it an airplane questionable at best.

Seems unfair that they all died to give the vast majority of the Pax their lives.

You seem to be suggesting that there was some sort of a conscious decision to trade their lives for passengers lives, or at least that passengers survived because they died. I missed that in the reports I read, could you provide a link?

Sarah said...

Yes, A*A "where'd the nose gear go?" was my thought too. Not good.

Please, Let's agree that its a horrible accident and leave it at that. Steve meant well and I appreciate his sentiment. I am reminded of comments about pilots trying to avoid buildings on the ground ... Well, of course. A healthy self-preservation instinct is good for the pax too, though the flight crew does tend to be "the first at the scene of the accident".

Anonymous said...

A^2 wrote

"Well you could design an airplane with a steel cage surrounding all occupants...but then it wouldn't fly because it would be far to heavy, which would make calling it an airplane questionable at best."

While I agree with the spirit of your comments, especially when trying to scale such protection to a large structure with high landing speeds as a modern airliner, there are general aviation aircraft that are designed this way. Most notably, Mooney aircraft all have a tubular steel "cage" that make up the fuselage. The aircraft tends to have a lower fatal accident rate when compared to other light aircraft in the same category of speed and complexity:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/sp9510.html

Anyway, I am biased as I own/operate one.

Anonymous said...

Off topic, but I wonder how many pilots have to worry about their ability to take corners on takeoff... :)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bda_1235576196


Kevin

Aviatrix said...

Cornering on takeoff is routine for float operations, and I've used bush runways with bends in them, but nothing as extreme as that road. I hope they have some system to make sure there isn't a bullock cart coming the other way!

Scott Johnson said...

I heard in a news report this morning that the Turkish 737 crew failed to cross-check their altimeters during a coupled approach. One of the altimeters apparently read -8 feet while at considerable altitude, and that was the one the autopilot was coupled to. The autothrottle retarded power to idle, and by the time the crew noticed, they were in a deep stall and struck the ground tail first.

Is it wrong that when I heard this, I immediately heard in my head the voice of Arthur Carlson of WKRP in Cincinnati, saying, "As God is my witness, I thought Turkish could fly!"

Anonymous said...

For those interested:

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/index.php/onderzoeken/onderzoeksraad-start-onderzoek-crash-turkish-airlines-op-schiphol/