tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post5630115957573964242..comments2024-03-13T09:47:40.487+00:00Comments on Cockpit Conversation: So Mosquito Netting Won't Work, Eh?Aviatrixhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-90373179318935217742009-01-27T01:06:00.000+00:002009-01-27T01:06:00.000+00:00Maybe there is a way to make the aircraft more vis...Maybe there is a way to make the aircraft more visible to the birds. The current strobe lights we see clearly may not be emitting in the best frequency however for birds to see... Here's one smart kid who figured that out for reducing bird strikes on windows:<BR/><A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/01/21/ot-090121-bird-decals.html?ref=rss" REL="nofollow">click here</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-1952407614494393962009-01-23T19:40:00.000+00:002009-01-23T19:40:00.000+00:00I've got it. Install a golden retriever on each w...I've got it. Install a golden retriever on each wing.Callsign Echohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394192594808060440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-40079671378382345272009-01-23T16:28:00.000+00:002009-01-23T16:28:00.000+00:00@ zb said:heard people complain about rear-mounted...@ zb said:<BR/><I>heard people complain about rear-mounted engines because they are allegedly more prone to ingestion of ice falling of the fuselage in front of them...</I><BR/><BR/>True enough. I recall hearing about a 727 that "lost an engine", I mean really, it fell off the pylon, when it ingested "blue ice" leaking from a lav. dump. How embarrassing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-68543447939609417782009-01-21T23:55:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:55:00.000+00:00@n6349c: Oh, the pleasures of engineering and desi...@n6349c: Oh, the pleasures of engineering and design... they are all about finding the right amount of pros and cons for a certain solution to a problem... What you say seems reasonable, but so far, I have only heard people complain about rear-mounted engines because they are allegedly more prone to ingestion of <I>ice</I> falling of the fuselage in front of them...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-45170907714102495822009-01-21T22:32:00.000+00:002009-01-21T22:32:00.000+00:00I wonder if aircraft with big, hi-bypass ratio eng...I wonder if aircraft with big, hi-bypass ratio engines hung under the wings (almost all newer a/c such as 737, 757,767, 777, 787, A3xx) have a higher rate of bird ingestion than aircraft with rear mounted engines (Embraer, MD80, almost all biz jets). I would bet that even when adjusted for intake area, rear mounted engines ingest fewer due to the birds bouncing of the fuselage skin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-69798824226078586282009-01-21T17:51:00.000+00:002009-01-21T17:51:00.000+00:00No, those are inlet guide vanes designed to presen...No, those are inlet guide vanes designed to present the first stage axial compressor with air at the proper AOA. Some designs are fixed, some are variable in pitch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-60414076884481346912009-01-21T17:22:00.000+00:002009-01-21T17:22:00.000+00:00Don't MD-80s (Delta's, at least) have some kind of...Don't MD-80s (Delta's, at least) have some kind of protector covering the intakes? It's not a screen so much, but more like a hub with 10-12 "spokes" that seem like it would keep large birds (e.g., geese) out. Maybe it serves some other purpose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-55048477035077402122009-01-21T06:03:00.000+00:002009-01-21T06:03:00.000+00:00I'm not sure "engine failure," is accurate for a c...I'm not sure "engine failure," is accurate for a compressor stall. Air entering the jet engine is compressed by a series of moving and static fins. Each fin is like a miniature airplane wing, and it has to hit the airflow at the right angle and speed to work. If there is a disruption in the airflow over the blades, the engine hiccups. It's comparable to missing the water with an oar when you're rowing a boat, except that the engine compressor stall makes a REALLY loud noise. I know of an airline captain who assumed a terrorist bomb had gone off in the back when he heard it.<BR/><BR/>A momentary compressor stall can occur during flight in turbulence, or changes in engine power. Worn engine components or ingestion of foreign objects could cause it too. You can bet the FAA will be looking at whether US Airways maintenance staff took the correct action in response to the first report. Personally I doubt that whatever caused the first compressor stall had any influence on the engine's ability to ingest multiple geese a few days later. But I'm neither an engineer nor an accident investigator. <BR/><BR/>And apparently I can't find things in books, either. Thanks for <A HREF="http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publications/tp14371/RAC/1-0.htm#1-15" REL="nofollow">the birds</A>. I was thinking it would be in AIR. I looked in RAC briefly, but only looked at the headings, so missed it under general.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-10093564363811652262009-01-21T05:36:00.000+00:002009-01-21T05:36:00.000+00:00Oh, and aviatrix, regarding the AIM info you're ta...Oh, and aviatrix, regarding the AIM info you're talking about:<BR/>In the April-October 2006 edition of the AIM, the migratory routes are in RAC 1.15.2. Figure 1.4(a) states altitudes to 10 000 Feet, Weight to 14 lbs. They can be flying at speeds of 30 to 45KTLouishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18006239734831132602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-53974139296997759072009-01-21T05:20:00.000+00:002009-01-21T05:20:00.000+00:00I just heard about this story on CNN that the same...I just heard about this story on CNN that the same plane as the one that ditched in the Hudson had an engine failure two days earlier.<BR/><BR/>http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/19/hudson.plane.folo/index.html<BR/><BR/>Thoughts?Louishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18006239734831132602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-50060877239622235352009-01-21T03:22:00.000+00:002009-01-21T03:22:00.000+00:00The 14,000' number was from memory, from the AIM. ...The 14,000' number was from memory, from the AIM. I tried to look it up and link it for this comment, but they seem to have taken that section out. At least I can't find it, and there used to be several pages including diagrams of migration routes and altitudes and bird weights. I wonder where it went.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-68467316240414872382009-01-21T01:45:00.000+00:002009-01-21T01:45:00.000+00:00Well good. About your previous point though about...Well good. About your previous point though about a 14,000 max height for geese... here is someone's picture of<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://silentflight.com/P0000385.JPG" REL="nofollow">Canadian geese at 18,000</A><BR/><BR/>This was in mountain wave so it wouldn't be common, but there they are.<BR/><BR/>The thread about it at <BR/><A HREF="http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.soaring/browse_thread/thread/cbaf3df26faf4d91#" REL="nofollow">rec.aviation.soaring</A><BR/><BR/>Apparently high altitude encounters do happen. So a bird catcher would have to be used full-time and better not kill efficiency too much. Not sure that's possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-62298193514254282082009-01-20T22:55:00.000+00:002009-01-20T22:55:00.000+00:00Hey, I liked your suggestion. I was waiting for so...Hey, I liked your suggestion. I was waiting for someone to pop up with evidence and analysis comparing engine failure inducing bird strikes suffered by prop planes and jets using the same airport, controlled for frequency of service and time of day. <BR/><BR/>When I started the research for that blog entry I thought <I>I</I> was being stupid. I was surprised to discover that bird grilles were considered feasible, whether or not they are economical.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-89056505347273183462009-01-20T22:36:00.000+00:002009-01-20T22:36:00.000+00:00Sorry about being rilly flippant in my earlier com...Sorry about being rilly flippant in my earlier comment. I suspect that while some protection scheme is possible ( I liked the patent mentioned ) economics and actuarial analysis will result in no change. It's a big sky, and no protection has worked so far (mostly), right? We'll see. There are certainly a lot more big geese around these days, and they stay all winter for the free urban food. I think better attention to warning away the flocks with noise, hunting, what ever it takes, is a better approach at airports with waterfowl cautions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-83739144773417013362009-01-20T18:30:00.000+00:002009-01-20T18:30:00.000+00:00n6349c, you are funny. Dude, are we glad that the ...n6349c, you are funny. Dude, are we glad that the pilot had the skill to, contrary to the report you mention, put the plane into the river and not into a skyscraper...<BR/><BR/>The funnies aside, a moskito net (or something alike) in front of the engine intakes will likely, as has already been said, clog with bird parts just like fuel the filters in some 777s' engines allegedly clog with cold fuel that contains some frozen water.<BR/><BR/>By the way... <A HREF="http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/D_L_X/US%20Airways%20Bird/" REL="nofollow">Bird! Parts!</A> (via <A HREF="http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4287717/" REL="nofollow">a-net</A>). The picture looks less gross than what I imagened after having read the very technical description above with all "the bird weights and quantities specified in Table 2" and how they "must be aimed at the most critical exposed location on the first stage rotor blades."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-85424629396448372642009-01-20T16:14:00.000+00:002009-01-20T16:14:00.000+00:00I think we are missing something important here. ...I think we are missing something important here. I heard someone on Fox News state these were CANADA geese, who without provocation, make a suicide attack on a US AIRWAYS plane made in FRANCE. It ended up at the World Trade Center (Ground Zero) in New York.<BR/><BR/>Enough said. The invasion starts today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-2602848376806985052009-01-20T15:55:00.000+00:002009-01-20T15:55:00.000+00:00damn! What Sarah said.damn! What Sarah said.Lord Huttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10243668575631936439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-58809232747045986312009-01-20T15:38:00.000+00:002009-01-20T15:38:00.000+00:00The birds will actually get out of the way if they...The birds will actually get out of the way if they see us coming. They aren't stupid. That's one reason why we routinely leave "landing" lights on below ten thousand, and if we know the birds are around we can operate at a lower speed. Some pilots also run the radar in the hope that perhaps the bird can sense radar waves and so get out of the way (We cannot see them on our existing radar at least).<BR/><BR/>I wonder if there could be an airplane equivalent to the deer whistles that we install on our car bumpers in the hope of discouraging animals from crossing the highway in front of us...Aluwingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16518739658424324739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-14519210651359210122009-01-20T08:42:00.000+00:002009-01-20T08:42:00.000+00:00Just upgrade the radars to AESA and put some AMRAA...Just upgrade the radars to AESA and put some AMRAAMs under the wings.Chris Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09165051951695781879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-31303735785511876292009-01-20T03:20:00.000+00:002009-01-20T03:20:00.000+00:00I saw a flock at 10,500 as I came into Albuquerque...I saw a flock at 10,500 as I came into Albuquerque and it spooked me. They were flying the wrong way for VFR flight at that altitude and it would have been head on for me.Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16656070367444324340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-13880712276925460122009-01-20T02:55:00.000+00:002009-01-20T02:55:00.000+00:00I have 210 as flap retraction speed, but wasn't to...I have 210 as flap retraction speed, but wasn't too confident in my source. Seeing as Canada geese do range up to 14,000 feet or so, I'll recalculate with 250 kts.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-83521048489115645922009-01-20T02:36:00.000+00:002009-01-20T02:36:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13153883168480077014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-51634940245318650472009-01-20T01:17:00.000+00:002009-01-20T01:17:00.000+00:00I've got it! Just mount a large, spinning metal ...I've got it! Just mount a large, spinning metal bird deflector in front of each engine. You'd have multiple "blades", perhaps each having a lifting wing cross-section to get thrust back out of the deal.<BR/><BR/>Should I patent it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com