tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post3474562060104157157..comments2024-03-13T09:47:40.487+00:00Comments on Cockpit Conversation: Neither Fish nor FowlAviatrixhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-16288503666811813042011-06-16T02:36:20.697+00:002011-06-16T02:36:20.697+00:00Anonymous: the guy who ignores they VFR pilots so ...<b>Anonymous</b>: <i>the guy who ignores they VFR pilots so they can't enter controlled airspace</i><br /><br />Yeah! Him! That is an experience bizarrely unique to US airspace. The first time it happened to me I thought I had a comm failure. I have never had a Canadian controller just refuse to talk to me. They may say, "Unable transit clearance at this time, remain clear of class C airspace," or some other variation of "Negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full," but I've never been dumped on indefinite hold the way the US controllers do when they don't want to deal with me.<br /><br />I'm trying to decide what a Canadian would have brought you to go with the beer. Doughnuts doesn't seem like enough, but fried chicken isn't quite our style.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-48840789712009392302011-06-15T20:32:19.039+00:002011-06-15T20:32:19.039+00:00No fan clubs here, just tower groupie chicks hang ...No fan clubs here, just tower groupie chicks hang out and wait for the balding, slightly over weight, middle aged dudes to roll out of the tower. No really, I have meet with pilots (not only my current tower but from the past 5) and usually they do ask about that one or two controllers. It's funny, they want to know who the guy is that helped the lance remember his gear before the sparks started or the guy who ignores they VFR pilots so they can't enter controlled airspace, one extreme or the other. I guess that is to be expected. Anyway, I've thought about your answer and I can see that "local procedures" can be confusing. I need to take a trip up to W-peg tower and see what goes on up there, it would be a good learning experience, it's only an 8 hour drive. Stay safe and keep up the great writing.<br /><br />LT<br />ps, the lance pilot brought me a bucket of KY fry (fried chicken) and a 12 pack of beer to the tower!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-27398469166857970692011-06-15T17:19:10.157+00:002011-06-15T17:19:10.157+00:00LAHSO and SIRO aren't quite the same. You can...LAHSO and SIRO aren't quite the same. You can have SIRO without LAHSO.<br /><br />And no, by fan page I mean pilots who are fans of the controller and got together and made a Facebook fan page for "the guy who says 'Rog'." He is so efficient they all love him.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-69147277379663201822011-06-15T16:29:24.395+00:002011-06-15T16:29:24.395+00:00This could be an interesting international topic f...This could be an interesting international topic for CC.<br /><br />I am getting used to "line up and wait", but didn't know there are still differences in terms. For instance, in the US we use LAHSO (written), for land-and-hold-short-operations rather than SIRO.<br /><br />In my limited experience, Center procedures are pretty well standardized, with local differences being what routes and arrivals they'll give you.<br /><br />The real wild cards are tower/ground, apparently that's so in Canada too. In the US, some towers are federally staffed, some are contract - and local procedures vary quite a bit.<br /><br />By "fan page" I assume you mean blog.<br />A good but somewhat less aviation centered one is <a href="http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Don Brown's</a>.<br /><br />I like this one, a <a href="http://nas-confusion.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">current Boston center controller's blog</a>.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09991660841701835065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-10864539698740510642011-06-15T15:56:40.286+00:002011-06-15T15:56:40.286+00:00The controllers have only two sorts of strips: IFR...The controllers have only two sorts of strips: IFR and VFR. CVFR goes on an IFR strip, so if the controller just looks at the type, they assume IFR. The point of CVFR is that I receive IFR separation and control standards while operating visually, but as DataPilot points out I'm barely visual anyway. Probably a lot of the pilots on IFR flight plans have more opportunity to look out the window than I do. Mistaking CVFR traffic for IFR leads only to controllers offering me clearances I can't use, not reduced separation standards for anyone. I'm operating in reserved altitude blocks, anyway. <br /><br /><b>LT</b>: ATC varies as much from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a country as it does from country to country, and at least you can look up and study the international differences. I like it when controllers follow the published rules closely and do not have too many local procedures. No one notices how many of those exist like a transient aircraft doing unusual things. I could pick and choose from the rules I like best from the US and Canada, and sometimes the FAA and TC do that too. Canada is starting on the US-style multiple landing clearances, and the US just went to Canadian-style explicit taxi clearances. Although I got a "Taxi runway 08" from a controller the other day. It was a straight shot from where I was, but as the airport was unfamiliar I would have liked a hint. Efficiency I more often notice as a measure of a particular controller or shift, than of a whole system, but I'd say Edmonton is much better integrated from tower to terminal to centre than Vancouver is, with Winnipeg intermediate between the two. That kind of efficiency varies similarly across the US, too. Anchorage was amazing, but that may have been a measure of familiarity to me: many large Canadian airports have to integrate northern VFR traffic with IFR airline traffic the way PANC does. Jacksonville, FL didn't seem to have a system to transfer information on airplanes like us from shift to shift, and even lost track of which frequency they had assigned us, so couldn't call us! The Canadian controllers are generally better at accommodating the expectations of US pilots, even switching to their vocabulary sometimes when they have difficulty than the US controllers are at 'speaking Canadian.' I think Canadian controllers in the path of the Alaskan migration even get training specifically geared to 'November season'. And I imagine Florida controllers are great at handling minimum-fuel, minimum-English flights coming from various Caribbean islands. <br /><br />There are so many factors of training, experience, environment, administrative structure and individual controllers that they hardly compare. Are there any US controllers with their own fan pages?Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-26018022637373331412011-06-15T05:44:46.868+00:002011-06-15T05:44:46.868+00:00Whether you realize it or not, you're actually...Whether you realize it or not, you're actually flying IFR. <br /><br />I mean, you're following Instrument Flight Rules of a sort -- although they do seem to be quite different from the Rules that most pilots understand. Instead of having localizer and glideslope indicators to center, you have a little green dot that turns red whenever you lose concentration for a second. And when that happens, you "miss the approach" and have to fly the line again.<br /><br />So you are IFR. It's just that your Instruments and Rules are different from anything I've ever seen. It's no wonder the controllers are so confused.DataPilothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11478857340951784073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-38659551410995508352011-06-15T04:23:09.407+00:002011-06-15T04:23:09.407+00:00Yeah she's flying but no one knows what kind o...Yeah she's flying but no one knows what kind of freakin' flight plan she's on! Really, what kind of separation standards are the controllers providing on a CVFR at 12'5? 1000' and 3 miles? 500' and target resolution (targets don't breed)? That seems very...... Canadian (nothing personal). I'd, and some other US controllers, would be interested in learning more. With your experience of flying in different countries which do you find a) more comfortable (my guess is the home country, you learned there) b) more user friendly (is everyone getting to use the airspace as they please, when they please) and c) the most effective system (atc) you've worked with. Sorry, I know, I just got home from the tower......<br />Good night.<br />LTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10000144.post-48954999004418814632011-06-15T02:37:03.629+00:002011-06-15T02:37:03.629+00:00She's flying! I can hear it in the engines. ...She's flying! I can hear it in the engines. -C.Cedarglenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00468497492189762095noreply@blogger.com